Former finance minister Grant Robertson has defended turning down an invitation to appear at public hearings of the Covid-19 inquiry, describing the process as a “show trial” and saying he’s already given hours of interviews.
A second week of public hearings at the inquiry was cancelled after former prime minister Dame Jacinda Ardern, current Labour leader Chris Hipkins, Robertson and former health minister Ayesha Verrall all turned down invitations to appear.
Commissioners opted not to use their powers to summons the four ex-ministers.
Robertson told Q+A earlier this week that the second phase of the inquiry, initiated by the National-led government, seemed to have a “show trial approach”.
Labour pandemic-era ministers Chris Hipkins, Grant Robertson and Ayesha Verrall have also declined. (Source: 1News)
“I have participated in both phases of the Covid inquiry. In total, now I’m up to about four and a half hours worth of interviews,” he said.
“When I finished my most recent interview with this phase, one of the staff of the Royal Commission said to me, ‘You’ve answered all of the questions we’ve asked and more.’
“We have participated. I have participated. I don’t know that in a lessons learned inquiry, the kind of show trial approach is actually that valuable.”
Asked why he thought it was a “show trial”, Robertson argued: “We’ve got precedent. We haven’t done this in Royal Commissions in New Zealand in the past, [where we] have politicians and former politicians come into the public arena.”
Government party leaders have criticised the ex-Labour ministers for not appearing at the inquiry, saying they were not fronting up to critical questions about their actions.
Robertson was appearing on Q+A in advance of the release of his memoir, Anything Could Happen, which is being released later this week.
In the interview, he was also asked about the Labour government’s pandemic-era spending levels, his views on New Zealand’s tax system, and reflecting on moments in his life. After leaving politics, Robertson became the vice-chancellor of Otago University.
Former finance minister defends pandemic-era spending
Robertson was also asked about the release of a recent Treasury report, which intimated the government spent too much during the pandemic response.
The former finance minister defended his actions and emphasised the proportion of spending that went towards initiatives, like the wage subsidy scheme.
He said: “If we think about the period in the latter part of 2021, Treasury was absolutely saying, ‘You’ve got to be careful about the amount you’re spending.’
“But they also recommended in papers I remember from August and September of 2021, when Delta arrived, that we should keep support going.
“They said don’t increase it too much, but keep it going. By May 2022, when the Budget was put forward, we closed the Covid fund. In a sense, I don’t really disagree with them, at one level. I just think there’s a little bit of hindsight there too. Yes, we had to be careful.
“But they also said you need to look after businesses and families when Delta arrived.”
Robertson said he thought the delivery outcomes of the previous Labour government at the time “generally” matched the scale of spending on programmes.
But he conceded “there are going to be things where it didn’t work”, including so-called “shovel-ready” infrastructure projects that turned out “weren’t quite ready to go”.
“The spending there ended up happening both over a longer time, and perhaps not in quite the way we might have wanted.”
In its long-term insights briefing, Treasury officials wrote that “many programmes” in the Ardern government’s fiscal response had a “lagged impact on the economy” and “proved difficult to unwind in later years” as high inflation emerged.
Officials said the previous government spent on a “wide range of initiatives with varied objectives over the period. These included, among others, shovel-ready projects, the Jobs For Nature scheme, more public housing, and even the school lunch programme.”
Inquiry due to report back in February
Covid-19 inquiry commissioners restated that they had “not changed its view that an open hearing would enhance public confidence in its processes”.
Inquiry chairperson Grant Illingworth KC said: “The Covid-19 pandemic was a significant event that affected every New Zealander.
“The government at the time, through its ministers, made decisions about how we as a nation responded to that pandemic, which had implications for all of us.
“We have been tasked with reviewing those decisions, and we thought it was important that the public see and hear for themselves important evidence about why some key decisions about the response to Covid-19 were made and for what reason.”
GPs say they’ve seen busy winter periods before and the system is ready to cope. (Source: 1News)
Commissioners were due to report back to the Governor-General at the end of February 2026, and the decision not to proceed with a hearing would not impact timelines.
A second phase of the Royal Commission into the Covid-19 response was introduced by the Government after a “first phase” which was completed last year.
Some of the previous Labour government’s decisions around the pandemic response proved to be extremely contentious – so much so that both ACT and NZ First campaigned on expanding an inquiry into those decisions.
Expanding the terms of reference and public hearings into the Covid-19 response were part of National and NZ First’s coalition agreement to form a government.
For the full interview, watch the video above
Q+A with Jack Tame is made with the support of New Zealand On Air