ACT Party leader David Seymour says his coalition partners “find it exceedingly difficult” to act in good faith over the Treaty Principles Bill, but asserted that the Government remains “very robust”.
The future deputy PM said his legislation to redefine the Treaty of Waitangi principles was “foundational to solving our other problems”, appearing to make a veiled reference to comments by National leader and Prime Minister Christopher Luxon.
Seymour spoke to Q+A after tens of thousands marched through Wellington on Tuesday as Hīkoi mō te Tiriti, in opposition to the Treaty bill, arrived at Parliament’s grounds. Te Pāti Māori co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer also spoke to Q+A earlier today.
Seymour said: “I think one of the most interesting questions about this whole debate is, why are people so het up about a bill that they will say won’t go anywhere?
1News’ Te Aniwa Hurihanganui reports from the capital as Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived. (Source: 1News)
“The reason for that is that it has gone somewhere already – just by introducing those two simple ideas, equal rights and an equal right to have a say.”
Luxon has ruled out National supporting the bill to a second reading. That would mean the legislation and a proposed referendum on Treaty principles would not go ahead.
The ACT leader, who opposes the legislation being called divisive, said there was “much resistance” to his bill because it gives people “a right to say” what the principles meant.
Asked if he believed his coalition partners have acted in good faith, Seymour said: “I think they find it exceedingly difficult, but you know, our coalition is very robust.
“We work together on a whole lot of issues. This is one where there’s some disagreement, and I think it shows why you need an ACT Party.
It comes after Te Pāti Māori MP Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke started a haka, challenging David Seymour on the day the Treaty Principles Bill was introduced to Parliament. (Source: 1News)
“This is a difficult conversation. A lot of people say, ‘Oh, well, why even have it? Work on the economy or something’. I say this is foundational to solving our other problems.”
Last week, Luxon gave his most strident comments to date criticising Seymour’s Treaty principles focus, calling the bill “divisive”.
“This is a Government that’s focused and was elected to get the country back on track – that means the economy, it means law and order. It means better public services.
“This doesn’t help us do that,” the PM said.
Luxon went on to say that his coalition partner’s bill was “simplistic” and “negates” more than 184 years of debate and discussion over the Treaty of Waitangi.
Treaty principles change inevitable, Seymour suggests
Speaking to Q+A, Seymour said it was “clear” that “the New Zealand we like to think of is no more”, necessitating an “honest conversation” about the role of Te Tiriti.
He cited an August 1News Verian poll to argue his case, which found 46% of voters saying racial tensions have worsened due to the coalition government’s policies.
“It’s also becoming clear – when TVNZ’s polling says 46% of people say they feel that the country is divided by ethnicity or ancestry – that the New Zealand we like to think of is no more, and we need to have an honest conversation about how that’s happened in the last 50 years.”
Asked what his long-term plan was if the Treaty Principles Bill didn’t pass a second reading, Seymour compared his legislation to the march for homosexual law reform in the 1970s and 1980s – suggesting re-defining the Treaty principles was inevitable.
He said: “Look at something like, say homosexual law reform. You know, first bill in the early-70s by Venn Young. It became legalised in 1986.
“At the time, I’m sure people said, ‘why are you even bothering us? It’s a waste of time’. Today, we don’t even question that part of our legal arrangement.”
Ngarewa-Packer rejects ‘extra rights’ commentary
Te Pāti Māori’s co-leader leader spoke to Q+A’s Jack Tame, after tens of thousands took part in a hīkoi to Parliament. (Source: 1News)
Appearing on Q+A shortly after Seymour, Te Pāti Māori co-leader Debbie Ngarewa Packer said she believed proponents of the Treaty Principles Bill were pushing “fear” in the debate.
“We’ve got this whole narrative that tangata whenua are given extra rights,” she said.
“We’re not given any extra rights to participate, but we are recognised because we are tangata whenua. We have those indigenous rights, and they are the last legal bastion that we have to protect all of Aotearoa from corporate exploitation.”
In the Government’s latest version of the Treaty Principles Bill, the rights of hapū and iwi which are recognised by existing Treaty settlements would continue to be recognised under the revamped principles. Ngarewa-Packer referred to the change.
“We’re having to defend our rights and pretend that the last 183 years or so didn’t exist.
“What we’ve got is a party that David [Seymour] represents, that supports having the Tiriti settled, but in those settlements, the Crown apologises and acknowledges that it needs to do better in honouring Te Tiriti,” she said.
Te Pāti Māori’s co-leader was also asked about criticism she made a “gun gesture” at ACT MPs during the party’s haka, which interrupted the vote on the legislation’s first reading.
Ngarewa-Packer appeared to reject the accusation today, adding that she didn’t believe the gesture looked like it was a gun.
“Certainly, there was nothing in me that felt like I had to do a gun action,” she said.
“Everything in me felt like I had to say you’re kino (evil) and that’s exactly what I said.”
ACT laid a complaint about the gesture and statement made by Ngarewa-Packer.
Q+A with Jack Tame is made with the support of New Zealand On Air
