Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has defended the Government’s latest round of tougher law and order policies, saying “if you’re in jail, you can’t create a new victim” amid a row over a new anti-shoplifting crackdown.
The minister said the four announcements made this week – including new coward punch laws, increased penalties for assaults on first responders, fines for shoplifting, and trespass law changes – sent “a clear and consistent message.”
Goldsmith, a senior National MP, sat down with Q+A for a wide-ranging interview this morning, across his ministerial portfolios.
He was pressed for the evidence behind whether the Government’s changes to cap sentence discounts and increase penalties for assaults on first responders would work.
The Justice Minister said, “there’s a long-running debate about deterrence.
“The starting point is if you want to reduce the number of victims, you’ve got to deal with that very small group of New Zealanders that create the most victims, and that’s why tougher sentences for them are important.”
Asked again for evidence behind the policy, he added, “well, the evidence is that if you’re in jail, you can’t create a new victim, because you’re in jail.
“And so that’s the clear message that we want to send.”
Earlier this week, Green MP Tamatha Paul said the new anti-shoplifting policies were “criminalising people who have to resort to stealing to feed themselves”. Goldsmith, who ridiculed the criticism earlier this week, was quizzed on his position in the Q+A interview.
The Justice Minister was also challenged about comparisons to other countries that had introduced similar policies to those announced this week, yet still faced high crime rates.
Goldsmith, who is also Treaty Negotiations Minister, was also questioned about the Government’s ongoing struggle to strike a Treaty settlement with Ngāpuhi, and whether the Crown would meet a goal aiming to have all settlements finalised by 2035.
He was questioned about a draft settlement with Te Whānau-ā-Apanui that was paused at the final hurdle after Goldsmith said he became uncomfortable over a clause to “agree to disagree” over whether sovereignty was ceded between the iwi and the Crown.
“The Te Whānau-ā-Apanui one was the first where it was directly responded to with an agree-to-disagree clause. I didn’t feel comfortable with, ultimately, constitutional experimentation through a Treaty settlement, or constitutional adventurism.”
He added that the “novelty” was agreed to by the previous Labour government. “This is the first time that it’s been done, and we weren’t comfortable going forward on that.”
Goldsmith conceded that he believed the sovereignty clause put “pressure” on public support for the process, and that it was part of his decision-making.
“That’s one of the key factors I’ve got in the back of my mind everywhere, is that we want to maintain public support for the Treaty settlement process,” he said.
Asked if he was worried about a revolt in public opinion, he replied, “it puts pressure on public support. New Zealanders have been broadly supportive of the Treaty settlement processes, and I want to keep that, and we want to get to an end.
“Everybody’s impatient.”
Goldsmith was also asked about his Cabinet colleague Shane Jones’ plans for a member’s bill to force Ngāpuhi to the negotiating table.
In his Q+A interview, the minister was also asked about his media portfolio, which he took on a year ago, promising “immediate action” to support the media sector.
More to come. Watch the full interview in the video above
Q+A with Jack Tame is made with the support of New Zealand On Air
